Discussion:
Solving the Gambas packaging problem psychologically (!)
(too old to reply)
Benoît Minisini
2014-01-06 17:35:18 UTC
Permalink
Yeah, great mail subject!

I think it will be more difficult for Linux distributions to fail
packaging Gambas correctly if there is a useful tool made in Gambas
(other than the IDE) that will be integrated inside package repositories
because people use it.

What do you think about that?

Do you think that extracting the image editor of the IDE and make a
simple but powerful "Paint" program from it could be a good idea?

That tool should be QT4/GTK+ agnostic of course.

Regards,
--
Benoît Minisini
Fabien Bodard
2014-01-06 20:28:18 UTC
Permalink
hum ... yes it can be an idea... but it must be a tip top tool
Post by Benoît Minisini
Yeah, great mail subject!
I think it will be more difficult for Linux distributions to fail
packaging Gambas correctly if there is a useful tool made in Gambas
(other than the IDE) that will be integrated inside package repositories
because people use it.
What do you think about that?
Do you think that extracting the image editor of the IDE and make a
simple but powerful "Paint" program from it could be a good idea?
That tool should be QT4/GTK+ agnostic of course.
Regards,
--
Benoît Minisini
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Fabien Bodard
Bruce
2014-01-07 11:08:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Benoît Minisini
Yeah, great mail subject!
I think it will be more difficult for Linux distributions to fail
packaging Gambas correctly if there is a useful tool made in Gambas
(other than the IDE) that will be integrated inside package repositories
because people use it.
What do you think about that?
Do you think that extracting the image editor of the IDE and make a
simple but powerful "Paint" program from it could be a good idea?
That tool should be QT4/GTK+ agnostic of course.
Regards,
No matter how many times I have tried to reply to this, I keep coming
back to this diagram : Loading Image...

Which is beautiful.

But, it begs the question, "which bit are we trying to create a tool
for"?

B
Rolf-Werner Eilert
2014-01-07 12:17:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Benoît Minisini
Yeah, great mail subject!
I think it will be more difficult for Linux distributions to fail
packaging Gambas correctly if there is a useful tool made in Gambas
(other than the IDE) that will be integrated inside package repositories
because people use it.
What do you think about that?
Do you think that extracting the image editor of the IDE and make a
simple but powerful "Paint" program from it could be a good idea?
That tool should be QT4/GTK+ agnostic of course.
Regards,
Hmmm - if you think of graphics, what about a tool like TerraGen /
TerraMaker? I know it's been made with VB, and a lot of people use it
for designing landscapes. TerraMaker has an export to POV and Blender,
so this would be something similar to our universe. At least this is not
#600 image editing software :)

And if not graphics, what about a tool for serial letters which simply
runs reliably (in contrary to the usual text crunchers available)? It
could include an easy-to-operate interface to different data sources
(from simple tables to database etc.) and combine these with a text
(from the richtext editor) to PDF output.

Regards
Rolf
Benoît Minisini
2014-01-07 12:29:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rolf-Werner Eilert
Post by Benoît Minisini
Yeah, great mail subject!
I think it will be more difficult for Linux distributions to fail
packaging Gambas correctly if there is a useful tool made in Gambas
(other than the IDE) that will be integrated inside package repositories
because people use it.
What do you think about that?
Do you think that extracting the image editor of the IDE and make a
simple but powerful "Paint" program from it could be a good idea?
That tool should be QT4/GTK+ agnostic of course.
Regards,
Hmmm - if you think of graphics, what about a tool like TerraGen /
TerraMaker? I know it's been made with VB, and a lot of people use it
for designing landscapes. TerraMaker has an export to POV and Blender,
so this would be something similar to our universe. At least this is not
#600 image editing software :)
And if not graphics, what about a tool for serial letters which simply
runs reliably (in contrary to the usual text crunchers available)? It
could include an easy-to-operate interface to different data sources
(from simple tables to database etc.) and combine these with a text
(from the richtext editor) to PDF output.
Regards
Rolf
Well... I have no idea of you are talking about, but it seems great. :-)

As for the 601th image editor, there is no simple image editor on Linux
that I like. What I did in the IDE is sort of one I want, but not
perfect yet.
--
Benoît Minisini
Rolf-Werner Eilert
2014-01-07 16:53:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Benoît Minisini
Post by Rolf-Werner Eilert
Post by Benoît Minisini
Yeah, great mail subject!
I think it will be more difficult for Linux distributions to fail
packaging Gambas correctly if there is a useful tool made in Gambas
(other than the IDE) that will be integrated inside package repositories
because people use it.
What do you think about that?
Do you think that extracting the image editor of the IDE and make a
simple but powerful "Paint" program from it could be a good idea?
That tool should be QT4/GTK+ agnostic of course.
Regards,
Hmmm - if you think of graphics, what about a tool like TerraGen /
TerraMaker? I know it's been made with VB, and a lot of people use it
for designing landscapes. TerraMaker has an export to POV and Blender,
so this would be something similar to our universe. At least this is not
#600 image editing software :)
And if not graphics, what about a tool for serial letters which simply
runs reliably (in contrary to the usual text crunchers available)? It
could include an easy-to-operate interface to different data sources
(from simple tables to database etc.) and combine these with a text
(from the richtext editor) to PDF output.
Regards
Rolf
Well... I have no idea of you are talking about, but it seems great. :-)
As for the 601th image editor, there is no simple image editor on Linux
that I like. What I did in the IDE is sort of one I want, but not
perfect yet.
As for TerraGen: http://planetside.co.uk/products/terragen3

But those guys have been programming it for years, so it would be hard
to come up with anything near to its perfection...

The serial letter thing is (in a very simple form) the project I just
sent you.

This image editor in the Gambas IDE, where is it? How can I access it?
Benoît Minisini
2014-01-07 20:38:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rolf-Werner Eilert
As for TerraGen: http://planetside.co.uk/products/terragen3
But those guys have been programming it for years, so it would be hard
to come up with anything near to its perfection...
The serial letter thing is (in a very simple form) the project I just
sent you.
This image editor in the Gambas IDE, where is it? How can I access it?
Just put any image file (jpg, png, gif or xpm) in your project and
double-click on it from the IDE.
--
Benoît Minisini
Rolf-Werner Eilert
2014-01-08 07:50:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Benoît Minisini
Post by Rolf-Werner Eilert
As for TerraGen: http://planetside.co.uk/products/terragen3
But those guys have been programming it for years, so it would be hard
to come up with anything near to its perfection...
The serial letter thing is (in a very simple form) the project I just
sent you.
This image editor in the Gambas IDE, where is it? How can I access it?
Just put any image file (jpg, png, gif or xpm) in your project and
double-click on it from the IDE.
Aah ok - never saw it before... Nice thing, and there are a lot of
standard function already included.

And what do you think is still missing?
Fernando Martins
2014-01-08 19:39:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Benoît Minisini
Post by Rolf-Werner Eilert
As for TerraGen: http://planetside.co.uk/products/terragen3
But those guys have been programming it for years, so it would be hard
to come up with anything near to its perfection...
The serial letter thing is (in a very simple form) the project I just
sent you.
This image editor in the Gambas IDE, where is it? How can I access it?
Just put any image file (jpg, png, gif or xpm) in your project and
double-click on it from the IDE.
I haven't checked it myself but your idea might not be so far fetched :)
I have not seen the latest versions of bitmap editors in Linux, but all
of those I have checked a couple of years ago, I always missed some
critical feature when compared to good old MS Paint Brush!! That's how
low my standard was. Amazing and very frustrating. My uses were actually
quite simple: grab some screenshot with PrtScn (or Alt+PrtScn), paste
into MS PB, do some basic image manipulation, but including pixel level
manipulation with a zoom, add some text, and then use it in a
presentation or the web. I remember the only feature I missed in PB was
to set the transparency color and some file format.

Plenty of Linux bitmap editors would fail on the clipboard requirement.
Others in the zoom, or the text, IIRC. The only one that worked decently
was the very old x-paint (IIRC the name) a pure X app, ugly as it could
be but solid and fairly deep stuff. (gimp was not for me)

Fernando
Rolf-Werner Eilert
2014-01-09 07:58:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fernando Martins
Post by Benoît Minisini
Post by Rolf-Werner Eilert
As for TerraGen: http://planetside.co.uk/products/terragen3
But those guys have been programming it for years, so it would be hard
to come up with anything near to its perfection...
The serial letter thing is (in a very simple form) the project I just
sent you.
This image editor in the Gambas IDE, where is it? How can I access it?
Just put any image file (jpg, png, gif or xpm) in your project and
double-click on it from the IDE.
I haven't checked it myself but your idea might not be so far fetched :)
I have not seen the latest versions of bitmap editors in Linux, but all
of those I have checked a couple of years ago, I always missed some
critical feature when compared to good old MS Paint Brush!! That's how
low my standard was. Amazing and very frustrating. My uses were actually
quite simple: grab some screenshot with PrtScn (or Alt+PrtScn), paste
into MS PB, do some basic image manipulation, but including pixel level
manipulation with a zoom, add some text, and then use it in a
presentation or the web. I remember the only feature I missed in PB was
to set the transparency color and some file format.
Plenty of Linux bitmap editors would fail on the clipboard requirement.
Others in the zoom, or the text, IIRC. The only one that worked decently
was the very old x-paint (IIRC the name) a pure X app, ugly as it could
be but solid and fairly deep stuff. (gimp was not for me)
Fernando
Yes, I think this is a good starting point: a practical tool, not a
functional dinosaur, but with the most important tools in it. Gwenview
for instance is a good viewer, but only a viewer. IrfanView in the
Windows world tries to be a viewer with a set of most important
manipulation tools, but is mostly used as a viewer. And the latest MS
Paint thing just drives me nuts with its unsorted surface.

Rolf
Rolf-Werner Eilert
2014-01-10 07:50:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fernando Martins
Post by Benoît Minisini
Post by Rolf-Werner Eilert
As for TerraGen: http://planetside.co.uk/products/terragen3
But those guys have been programming it for years, so it would be hard
to come up with anything near to its perfection...
The serial letter thing is (in a very simple form) the project I just
sent you.
This image editor in the Gambas IDE, where is it? How can I access it?
Just put any image file (jpg, png, gif or xpm) in your project and
double-click on it from the IDE.
I haven't checked it myself but your idea might not be so far fetched :)
I have not seen the latest versions of bitmap editors in Linux, but all
of those I have checked a couple of years ago, I always missed some
critical feature when compared to good old MS Paint Brush!! That's how
low my standard was. Amazing and very frustrating. My uses were actually
quite simple: grab some screenshot with PrtScn (or Alt+PrtScn), paste
into MS PB, do some basic image manipulation, but including pixel level
manipulation with a zoom, add some text, and then use it in a
presentation or the web. I remember the only feature I missed in PB was
to set the transparency color and some file format.
Plenty of Linux bitmap editors would fail on the clipboard requirement.
Others in the zoom, or the text, IIRC. The only one that worked decently
was the very old x-paint (IIRC the name) a pure X app, ugly as it could
be but solid and fairly deep stuff. (gimp was not for me)
Fernando
A few minutes ago, I wanted to do just the thing you mentioned (take a
web graphic / screenshot, draw some lines, add a few comments, and put
it back into a forum article). Gimp is way too sophisticated to do such
things quick-and-dirty, and I didn't know what to use else. So: 100 % agree.

On my distro, some mtPaint has been installed (and I hadn't even noticed
yet). It seems it's older stuff, so it might have come in together with
KDE3 (although it's GTK+). If you can find it, take a look at it. Or I
could make a screenshot... It offers a lot of functions via the menues,
much too many in my opinion. But it was delevoped to work on icon
bitmaps, according to the impressum text.

Anyway, its functions would mark the limit for me in such a tool. At a
first glance, I would change the toolbars to a "minimum necessary" and a
"show it all" version to not scare away beginners. And one might add a
customizing function that allows icons/functions to swap between the two
modes for usability.

What I wanted to say is, the more I keep thinking about it, the more I
begin to like this idea.

Rolf
Bruce
2014-01-10 08:21:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rolf-Werner Eilert
Post by Fernando Martins
Post by Benoît Minisini
Post by Rolf-Werner Eilert
As for TerraGen: http://planetside.co.uk/products/terragen3
But those guys have been programming it for years, so it would be hard
to come up with anything near to its perfection...
The serial letter thing is (in a very simple form) the project I just
sent you.
This image editor in the Gambas IDE, where is it? How can I access it?
Just put any image file (jpg, png, gif or xpm) in your project and
double-click on it from the IDE.
I haven't checked it myself but your idea might not be so far fetched :)
I have not seen the latest versions of bitmap editors in Linux, but all
of those I have checked a couple of years ago, I always missed some
critical feature when compared to good old MS Paint Brush!! That's how
low my standard was. Amazing and very frustrating. My uses were actually
quite simple: grab some screenshot with PrtScn (or Alt+PrtScn), paste
into MS PB, do some basic image manipulation, but including pixel level
manipulation with a zoom, add some text, and then use it in a
presentation or the web. I remember the only feature I missed in PB was
to set the transparency color and some file format.
Plenty of Linux bitmap editors would fail on the clipboard requirement.
Others in the zoom, or the text, IIRC. The only one that worked decently
was the very old x-paint (IIRC the name) a pure X app, ugly as it could
be but solid and fairly deep stuff. (gimp was not for me)
Fernando
A few minutes ago, I wanted to do just the thing you mentioned (take a
web graphic / screenshot, draw some lines, add a few comments, and put
it back into a forum article). Gimp is way too sophisticated to do such
things quick-and-dirty, and I didn't know what to use else. So: 100 % agree.
On my distro, some mtPaint has been installed (and I hadn't even noticed
yet). It seems it's older stuff, so it might have come in together with
KDE3 (although it's GTK+). If you can find it, take a look at it. Or I
could make a screenshot... It offers a lot of functions via the menues,
much too many in my opinion. But it was delevoped to work on icon
bitmaps, according to the impressum text.
Anyway, its functions would mark the limit for me in such a tool. At a
first glance, I would change the toolbars to a "minimum necessary" and a
"show it all" version to not scare away beginners. And one might add a
customizing function that allows icons/functions to swap between the two
modes for usability.
What I wanted to say is, the more I keep thinking about it, the more I
begin to like this idea.
Rolf
Rolf,
Not trying to kill any good ideas at all, but given what you said have
you ever had a look at "Shutter"? Here's a sample, it took about 30
seconds.

regards
Bruce
Fernando Martins
2014-02-03 17:46:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bruce
Post by Rolf-Werner Eilert
Post by Fernando Martins
Post by Benoît Minisini
Post by Rolf-Werner Eilert
As for TerraGen: http://planetside.co.uk/products/terragen3
But those guys have been programming it for years, so it would be hard
to come up with anything near to its perfection...
The serial letter thing is (in a very simple form) the project I just
sent you.
This image editor in the Gambas IDE, where is it? How can I access it?
Just put any image file (jpg, png, gif or xpm) in your project and
double-click on it from the IDE.
I haven't checked it myself but your idea might not be so far fetched :)
I have not seen the latest versions of bitmap editors in Linux, but all
of those I have checked a couple of years ago, I always missed some
critical feature when compared to good old MS Paint Brush!! That's how
low my standard was. Amazing and very frustrating. My uses were actually
quite simple: grab some screenshot with PrtScn (or Alt+PrtScn), paste
into MS PB, do some basic image manipulation, but including pixel level
manipulation with a zoom, add some text, and then use it in a
presentation or the web. I remember the only feature I missed in PB was
to set the transparency color and some file format.
Plenty of Linux bitmap editors would fail on the clipboard requirement.
Others in the zoom, or the text, IIRC. The only one that worked decently
was the very old x-paint (IIRC the name) a pure X app, ugly as it could
be but solid and fairly deep stuff. (gimp was not for me)
Fernando
A few minutes ago, I wanted to do just the thing you mentioned (take a
web graphic / screenshot, draw some lines, add a few comments, and put
it back into a forum article). Gimp is way too sophisticated to do such
things quick-and-dirty, and I didn't know what to use else. So: 100 % agree.
On my distro, some mtPaint has been installed (and I hadn't even noticed
yet). It seems it's older stuff, so it might have come in together with
KDE3 (although it's GTK+). If you can find it, take a look at it. Or I
could make a screenshot... It offers a lot of functions via the menues,
much too many in my opinion. But it was delevoped to work on icon
bitmaps, according to the impressum text.
Anyway, its functions would mark the limit for me in such a tool. At a
first glance, I would change the toolbars to a "minimum necessary" and a
"show it all" version to not scare away beginners. And one might add a
customizing function that allows icons/functions to swap between the two
modes for usability.
What I wanted to say is, the more I keep thinking about it, the more I
begin to like this idea.
Rolf
Rolf,
Not trying to kill any good ideas at all, but given what you said have
you ever had a look at "Shutter"? Here's a sample, it took about 30
seconds.
For the record, I just tried Shutter and it does not allow image
editing, e.g., selecting an area and moving it to another place, fill
inside an _existing_ region

Fernando
John Rose
2014-02-03 18:14:47 UTC
Permalink
There are also GNU Paint & Pinta.
Fernando Martins
2014-02-03 18:32:28 UTC
Permalink
Pinta was one of those I had tried years ago and was missing something.
I gave it another quick go and at first sight it seems indeed to be
doing the basic things I used to do with MS Paint.

One minor thing, to be picky, I can't resize the canvas with handles.

Regards,
Fernando
Post by John Rose
There are also GNU Paint & Pinta.
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